kerdi membrane over cement board

Not everyone knows how to do mud and lathe it's so old school plus it wears you out, ive been a setter for 27 yrs and I have yet to go back to one of my showers I installed using perma base or durock, with a liner, i have started using waterproofing such as redguard or aqua-defense. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? It only takes a minute to sign up. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. x 48 in. See the foam bench and the corners. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. In my. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. Step 8: Allow to dry. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' Cut the shower tray to size. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. It's still applied to cement board. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Good luck with your project. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . It worked well - just like wallpapering. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. After installing your mud bed, make sure it is fully cured before applying Aquadefense. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. We sponge water onto the cement board. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Yup! You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. x 96 in. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. Will use the Schluter Shower system. A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Cementboard sufficient to a tub surround is dirt cheap .vs. Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. Why is this the case? Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! the cost of the tile job. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Personally, I like standard drywall. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. I also used the Kerdi drain. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Hi.I have a unique situation. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. They are square. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Thanks to all for the feedback. Once all that is completed and the Aquadefense has dried, you can install your tile with a polymer modified mortar meeting the ANSI requirements of A118.4 or A118.11. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Maybe try another brand of thinset? A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Go with smaller bags or only mix half. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. rev2023.3.3.43278. All it takes is the right preparation. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. Will add it in. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. In . is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Install the drain adapter, if needed. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. Gettin' a little delirious. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. Make sure to use multiple coats, if necessary. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. Also - use a good thinset. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. This will prevent water from entering from behind the membrane, and will provide a more secure waterproof layer. Contact us: 888-472-4588 Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. A place where magic is studied and practiced? This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it.

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